Buderus Logamatic 2107 vs Taco PC-700
We’ve decided to replace the 45-year old heating system in our house (oil, indirect water heater, 4-zones, all baseboards, beacon/morris kickspace in kitchen that shares a zone with the living room and dining room). I have had three companies out to evaluate my house and provide me with recommendations and an estimate. I’ve decided to go with Buderus – the G115WS/4 is the model that each company suggested for our 2,000 square foot house in Massachusetts. Two estimates suggest matching the Buderus with a Riello burner, and the other recommended a Beckett NX burner. Also, the previous house owner put in a 40-gal Super Stor indirect water heater that’s still in very good shape so I’m gonna stick with that. I’m leaning towards also putting in a weather responsive unit to get better fuel efficiency. Two of my estimates recommended going with the Logamatic…. And the third said that for my house the Taco PC-700 would work better. Any opinions/comparisons of the Logamatic and the Taco PC-700 working with the Buderus boiler? The estimator who recommended the Taco seemed to be VERY familiar with both units and said that he has installed lots of both. The reason he recommended the Taco for me seems to be primarily because my house has multiple zones. He said the Logamatic was originally designed to handle 1 zone, and that it’s not great for multi-zone systems….. He said that we’d need to choose one master zone, and that the other zones would be slaves to that master zone, and that the result would be that the other zones would be very slow to heat up and that no zone could be warmer that what the main zone was set at. He said that the Taco was better at heating 4 zones and that each zone would have its own command. Does that make sense? Or is it crazy-talk? Would seem to me that it makes sense to pair the Buderus Logamatic with the Buderus boiler.... And that's where I'm getting confused. Also, if going with the Logamatic, would I want both indoor and outdoor sensors? Is the indoor sensor what Buderus refers to as the “Optional Room Sensor” in the literature? I should probably also tell you (in case it hasn’t been totally obvious) that I’m just your average homeowner who doesn’t know a lot about heating systems. I just trying to learn and educate myself so that I can make a smart and informed decision on my new heating system. This is all a bit confusing for me and I very much appreciate any feedback you have to help me select an optimal heating system for my house. Many thanks! Go with the Logomatic and both outdoor and optional indoor sensor. The PC-700 is not nearly the control that the Logomatic is, and doesn't have any better control over heating multiple zones (it's actually worse). There are lots of minor tweaks you can make to baseboard dampers in the master and slave zones to ensure even heating and/or heating to the temp you want. Been there, done that with exactly the control strategy you'd have with the Logo and out/in sensors. It's fantastic. The Logomatic also does some very nice control for the indirect water heater, which the PC-700 does not (even with the PC-xxx add-on cards). With any of these approaches, you will need to replace the existing thermostat in the Beacon-Morris kicker with a low-temp thermostat because the average water temperature will go way down. It's a stock item from Beacon-Morris. Good luck. Originally Posted by xiphias you will need to replace the existing thermostat in the Beacon-Morris kicker with a low-temp thermostat because the average water temperature will go way down. It's a stock item from Beacon-Morris. Call Beacon-Morris - they might send you a lo-temp aquastat for free if you're nice. I know they will for a recently installed kick heater, which was my case. If you just order one, via Internet or whatever, there is a charge. Even with my regular boiler and water setpoint, the regular B-M thermostat was set too high. Yes, it would eventually come on, but at breakfast, I don't like to wait - I come down to the kitchen in my pajamas, and warm air blowing on my feet feels great. I think there was an old song, If Your Feets is Cold, Everything is Cold. Thank you both for the replies! I called B-M this morning and they are sending me the low-temp thermostat. I also called Buderus and spoke to one of their technical support guys. He confirmed that the Logamatic can be used with multiple zones, but he recommended to NOT use an indoor Logamatic sensor and to just use the programmable thermostats in each zone like i am using today. Xiphias, this seems contrary to your recommendation to use an indoor sensor. If you don't mind, would you please elaborate a bit on the pros / cons of using the indoor sensor in a multi-zone Logamatic confuguration? Sounds like skipping the indoor sensor would eliminate the master zone /slave zones issues.... But what's the downside? Many, many thanks! I'm unclear as to what this talk of 'master zone / slave zone' is all about... If your system is properly designed and wired, what ANY ONE of the thermostats calls for heat, it will open it's associated zone valve and call the boiler for heat. There really is no 'master / slave' situation ... so I'm confused about that. The indoor sensor _could_ be problematic in some cases... if it's not situated in a location that represents the average temperature of the home, it is possible that some rooms will be cool, and some OK. Because the indoor sensor will basically 'regulate' the water temperature in the system, it will attempt to keep the area that it is located in at a constant temperature. If say for example, you have a zone in which the doors are always closed, and those rooms have a higher heat loss then the zone with the indoor sensor, the water that goes to heating those rooms _may_ end up to cool to heat them properly. There ARE ways to 'bridge' multiple sensors though, and this arrangement would tend to give a better 'average' temp for the control to work off of. I think Xiphias spent some time determining the optimum location for his sensor... yes? Slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering how these systems compare to the Tekmar controllers, especially the tN2 House Control 401. I'm considering that controller for a conventional heater with multiple baseboard zones. Thanks, Juliean. Originally Posted by jgalak Slightly off-topic, but I'm wondering how these systems compare to the Tekmar controllers, especially the tN2 House Control 401. Juliean. Juliean, best to start a new thread with all your info - rather than hijacking this one. Caveats: It's too darn hot to think.... And type.... It's been ages since I looked in detail at the Logomatic manuals. I'm far more familiar with how the tekmar controls work than the Buderus. My philosophy is that the heat input supplied by the boiler and heating elements should be based on the actual heat loss as measured by some kind of indoor sensor(s). Outdoor reset doesn't do that. Outdoor reset is just an approximation based on one variable. It's certainly a step in the right direction, but why not take the next step and base the heat input on the actual loss from the building? That's what indoor sensors do. They account for losses due to drafts, poor insulation, etc., and external gains from sunny days, internal gains from cooking, occupancy (a human gives off about 250-400 BTU/hr -- imagine having a big party, the house warms up and the heat turns off...), etc. etc. Lots of big buildings do this, and have for years. So the downside is that just using the outdoor sensor is limiting the control in what it can do to make the whole system perform at peak efficiency. My own (tekmar) system is a case in point. I ran it for one heating season on just the outdoor sensor, with a pretty-well calculated reset curve (or so I thought). Then I added an indoor sensor and tuned both zones so that they circulate basically constantly except when gains make them turn off. The indoor sensor provides direct feedback to the control and allows it to lower the water temperature, increase the spacing between firing cycles, and generally optimize the whole system for efficiency and comfort. There was a marked reduction in fuel use. And the whole house is a very comfortable, constant temperature. Anyway, I looked at this: http://www.buderus.us/files/20100623..._06%202010.pdf See page 30. That's what I'd do. Put the BFU in the coolest zone then adjust dampers on the other zones until the whole place runs on nearly constant circulation. The coolest zone will require the warmest water. Closing dampers in the other zones will reduce output. You can also set the thermostats to turn off the zones if they get too warm from those gains mentioned above. And if you don't like it, just disconnect it. But I'd venture that it can be tuned to work really well, and provide outstanding efficiency and comfort. Thank you for taking the time to reply to this thread…. I appreciate the insight and guidance very much! Sorry if my use of “master / slave” isn’t right or confused things further. One installer used that term when describing using the Logamatic indoor room sensor with multiple zones…. I think his point was that if I used a room sensor that I’d need to choose 1 main zone, and that no other zone could get warmer than what the main zone was set at, and that it would take a long time (hours) to heat up zones in I program them to drop say at night then raise in the morning. Sounds like you both disagree with that opinion and believe that the Indoor Sensor should absolutely be used with the Logamatic, even in a multi-zones house. And you mentioned “constant circulation”. Is that definitely the best way to configure the system if using the indoor sensor? With constant circulation, do I basically need to choose 1 zone that will be set to the warmest temperature in the house at all times? How does one determine the ideal placement of the room sensor? Does it necessarily need to go next to one of the existing thermostats? I now realize this is a very important step since the room sensor will basically regulate the water temp of my entire house. Don’t’ think I really have an “average temp” room or coolest zone now… But I could change how I set temperatures to make the zones more consistent if that’s more efficient to do. I’m just having a hard time wrapping my arms around the idea that it would be more efficient to heat the house consistently and not drop temperatures with my programmable thermostats based on day/night and also zone usage/non-usage during the day. With the logamatic, do I still program the thermostats to drop at night? Or will the Logamatic setback basically do that for me now? Here’s how I programmed my thermostats last winter: During the weekends, we keep all zones pretty much consistent to each other at 65 degrees during the day, with the bedroom zone dropping just a tad to 63 at night and the rest of the house down to 60 at night. During the week, I’ve programmed all zones to drop the temperature to 60 during the day while we’re at work. The thermostats are programmed to heat up to 65 late afternoon and stay that way til 10pm before dropping temp back to 60 for the evening (except the bedroom which is programmed for 63 at night). Also, two days a week I keep the basement zone warmer during the day as my wife works from home and spends the day in the basement…. On these days, the basement during the day is the warmest part of the house. One of the zones is a sunroom with tons of windows…. Not surprisingly, this zone gets crazy hot in the summer and cooler in the winter than other parts of the house. We don’t use this zone much in the winter so it’s never bothered us. Hope i didn't type too much info.... But I'm really enjoying learning about heating systems and am pretty excited to be installing a new one, now i just want to make sure its done in the most efficient and comfortable way for my house. Thank you all again! Sorry if my use of “master / slave” isn’t right or confused things further. One installer used that term when describing using the Logamatic indoor room sensor with multiple zones…. I think his point was that if I used a room sensor that I’d need to choose 1 main zone, and that no other zone could get warmer than what the main zone was set at, and that it would take a long time (hours) to heat up zones in I program them to drop say at night then raise in the morning. Sounds like you both disagree with that opinion No, not really... that's kinda sorta more or less what I was saying. As Xiphias explained, the indoor sensor will allow the control to calculate the required water temperature very accurately. But problems can arise if there is different 'ratio' of heat emitters (baseboards or radiators) vs. the heat loss of the different zones... and the sensor is not in an average temp area... what your installer was explaining is another possible problem... coming back to temp after a setback period... A boiler sized with DOE output tight to the heat loss and zoning set up so that there is as much constant load as possible is a very efficient setup. As rbeck commonly points out, zoning can often lead to short-cycling of the boiler because with only one or two zones calling the boiler is way oversized for just the load of that small demand. Computing the ratio of heat loss to heat emitter as Trooper suggests is a useful exercise. That, along with your experience in the house, can help inform where to put the indoor sensor. Constant circulation basically gets every last usable BTU out of your system. My suggestion to place the sensor in the coolest zone (but not your sunroom, obviously), will provide the warmest water temperature to the whole system. Then you can use the zone thermostats as 'high limits' that stop circulation if necessary or desired. You will also be able to close the dampers on the baseboard to reduce their output, so can get the whole house dialed in pretty close to constant. It takes a while to get over nighttime setback. Used to do it aggressively, ~5-8F overnight. Then went from 5F to 2F. Then just quit entirely and have come to love it. Slow and steady wins the race. Recovery from setback actually takes a lot of juice with a hydronic system. (Not so true with forced hot air, which is where setback typically makes the most sense.) However, you don't necessarily need to ditch setback altogether. With the indoor sensor, the control will be able to see the actual room temperature and track its progress toward setpoint during the morning recovery. So it can jack up the boiler temperature to bring the temperature up, then back off as setpoint is reached. That is a huge advantage of having the indoor sensor vs. having just a standard outdoor reset curve with fixed supply temp for a given outdoor temp. IIRC, the Logo also has some features that will do temporary overrides, etc. to aid with setback/recovery. And yes, I believe that you can pretty much program the Logo to run the house and just use the zone thermostats as high limits. Check out page 40 and beyond of the user manual: http://www.buderus.us/files/20100618..._Operating.pdf Thanks for the links to the Logamatic manuals.... I read every page and understood more of it than i thought i would. The first few pages from the Logamatic applications manual were VERY helpful in summarizing the concepts of Outdoor Reset, Constant Circulation and Indoor Room Sensors that you both have been explaining to me. I was curious how many feet of baseboards are in the house so i just measured. Zone 1: Bedrooms/Bathroom = 46 feet Zone 2: LR/DR/Kit = 25 feet plus 18 inch kick under sink Zone 3: Den/Basement/Bathroom/Laundry = 43 feet Zone 4: Sunroom = 16 feet So that totals approx 130 feet plus the B-M kick under the kitchen sink -- plus the indirect water heater -- for my 2,000 square foot house. On the boiler, the LR/DR/Kit and Den/Basement zones split into two pipes after the zone valve (I'm sure there is a better way to describe this....) I know that's really not a lot of information about my house or the heat-loss, but just knowing that info does a Buderus G115WS/4 at 109,000 Gross BTU and 95,000 Net BTU (chimney vent) seem reasonable? Oh, and not sure if it's helpful to also know that we've been using about 800 gallons of oil a year (mostly during the cold Massachusetts winters) and that in the winter we keep the heat set on the low side - 64 during the day. Originally Posted by FleetwoodH I know that's really not a lot of information about my house or the heat-loss, but just knowing that info does a Buderus G115WS/4 at 109,000 Gross BTU and 95,000 Net BTU (chimney vent) seem reasonable? No, not reasonable. Get the G115WS/3. The following is not the way to size a boiler, but it does provide a useful upper end. 130 ft of baseboard * 550 BTU/hr output = 71500 BTU/hr possible. Add another 8500 BTU/hr for the kicker. Total possible heat emitter output at 180F average water temperature is... 80,000 BTU/hr. The odds of ever needing that much output are truly minuscule. That equates to a heat loss of 40 BTU/hr per sq ft of house. That's incredibly lossy. Your actual heat loss is maybe 60-75% of that. Maybe (I know nothing of your building envelope). Less if you take some time to do some air sealing and insulation. Anyway, the gross output shouldn't be larger than 80k BTU/hr. Don't go by IBR, especially since you will be running outdoor reset, etc. which will increase circulation so there are not IBR-type pick-up losses (it's a long story about how outdated IBR is...). Repeat: your heat emitters cannot give off more than 80,000 BTU/hr, so it is truly pointless to have a boiler with a gross output higher than that. Do not buy the 'just to be safe' argument from the installer. This is simple physics. You can't make 109,000 BTU/hr come out of an 80,000 BTU/hr emitter system. Now, the only reason I did that as a crude upper end -- as opposed to suggesting a real heat loss calc -- is because you still need to fire the indirect at a reasonable rate or it's like holding a candle under a washtub. The output of the G115WS/3 will be fine with a 40 gal indirect. For good measure, you might also consider keeping the indirect at 140F and using a Taco 5000, Honeywell-Sparco, or similar anti-scald tempering valve to provide the desired ~115F at the taps. Some advantages are 1) 140F kills many bacteria including Legionella, and 2) using higher water temp in tank and mixing down effectively gives you more hot water. A potential downside is that theoretically there is increased standby loss, but I would argue that in a well-insulated indirect like the SuperStor it is insignificant and probably not even measurable. This approach is actually quite common and is code in many jurisdictions (maybe now in MA, too). And don't forget to insulate and air seal, based on a real energy audit that includes a blower-door test and thermal IR imagery. It's the cheapest and fastest-payback thing you can do to lower fuel use and increase comfort. Wow, so much to consider! I mentioned to my wife yesterday that all 3 installers recommended a boiler that was oversized for our house. She almost immediately asked Well, what happens if we ever decide to build the addition to our house that we occasionally talk about, which is something I didn't think of because we haven't seriously considered it yet, but I suppose it may be part of our plan at some point. Just guessing, but is this the just to be safe argument that you mentioned? Would this be a fair summary of the downsides associated with having a moderately/acceptably over sized boiler and a moderately/acceptably under sized boiler? Over sized: Fuel inefficient…. No other big downside other than burning more oil than an ideally sized boiler Under sized: Takes longer to achieve desired room temps , especially after setback…. Boiler may not be able to get the house warm enough on the coldest days…. Might not be enough hot water and/or slower time to heat more water On the moderately/acceptably oversized side, would a boiler that's bigger than needed use say 10% more oil than one that is properly sized? 5%? 20%? (I typed moderately/acceptably oversized because that's what I'm assuming putting the Buderus G115WS/4 in my house would be). At this point, I'm definitely leaning towards adding the Logamatic, but just the outdoor sensor and not the indoor room sensor. I want to avoid the potential problems that can arise with indoor reset, especially since i don't think my house doesn't have an average temp room. Sounds like just using the outdoor sensor would make my system a good amount more efficient (even if it's not the most efficient possible) while also avoiding the potential pitfalls that the indoor sensor can result in. Make sense? I'm also wondering if it would worthwhile wait a year or two before installing the Logamatic and see how the new Buderus does on its own first. That way I could first gauge how much oil I saved by just putting in the new boiler…. And then I could see how much additional oil I saved when adding the outdoor Logamatic sensor. There really is a lot to consider! Many, MANY thanks for helping me think through this important decision. One quick comment, busy tonight! Indoor sensor is not a terribly expensive component, it's a simple 'thermistor' in a little box. Aside from possible expense in running a wire, there isn't a lot of 'extra' cost involved, and is something that I'm sure a reasonably skilled homeowner can accomplish. If you _did_ get the 'itch' to try the indoor sensor, you wouldn't be out a whole lotta bux if you decided it wasn't working for you. As I mentioned earlier, there _are_ ways to 'bridge' multiple sensors in various rooms to average the temp in the home. Just a thought... if you wanted to experiment down the road a way. Personally, I would probably go right for the Logo... No, the 'just to be safe' usually refers to something like 'you don't want to get caught in a record cold spell'. Which is bunk. Again, it's related to the max your system can do. Addition is no problem. How big? Let's say 600 sf. It might have a heat load of around 14,000 BTU/hr at design, if decently constructed. Much less if you go with icynene spray insulation, dense cellulose, whatever. You haven't done anything to the envelope of the existing house. If you don't, then when you do the addition get the air sealing and insulation done. There is no doubt that you can free up 14k BTU/hr from even a small bit of envelope improvement. Cases in point. I added 15% sf to a house, insulated, air sealed, and the heat load for the whole building went down around 35%.... Recently doubled the sf of an old farmhouse and did spray foam everywhere. Heat load increased by about 10%. No problem for the existing boiler. IMHO, the Logo is an absolute no-brainer. It is the ideal control for that boiler; I can't imagine a 21st century install without it. Trooper is a bit mistaken on the indoor sensor, as Buderus' has a bit more going on than just the simple thermistor (which is typical for some of the simpler tekmar setups we see here often). So installation will require a 5-strand instead of 2-strand wire. No biggie! As to the over/undersized stuff. Oversizing is, as you note, inefficient. Now multiply that inefficiency by 20-30 years. You really want to pay that every time the boiler fires? Yuck. Undersizing is a non-issue. What you are after is right-sizing and choosing the right controls to give you the performance and comfort you deserve from all the homework you've been doing. The right size boiler with the right control package will do everything you want. People have a huge tendency to get all worked up about sizing boilers because they're worried about being cold. The simple fact is that even if they are sized for design conditions, those conditions, by ASHRAE definition, happen for a few HOURS every year. And some years not at all. And they typically occur when you're sleeping, under blankets and during setback. Sun comes up, temperature rises 5 or more degrees, heat load drops, and poof it's over and you never even noticed. In a truly extreme circumstance where design conditions are met or exceeded for several days at a time, the house might cool off a couple of degrees in the third day. This might happen once a decade. Maybe. For the other 99.0002% of the time, the boiler is right-sized or oversized because the load is lower. Put on a sweater or throw a party. Ten people is about 2500-4000 BTU/hr! Originally Posted by FleetwoodH Wow, so much to consider! I mentioned to my wife yesterday that all 3 installers recommended a boiler that was oversized for our house. She almost immediately asked “Well, what happens if we ever decide to build the addition to our house that we occasionally talk about”, which is something I didn’t think of because we haven’t seriously considered it yet, but I suppose it may be part of our plan at some point. Just guessing, but is this the “just to be safe” argument that you mentioned? Would this be a fair summary of the downsides associated with having a moderately/acceptably over sized boiler and a moderately/acceptably under sized boiler? Over sized: Fuel inefficient…. No other big downside other than burning more oil than an ideally sized boiler Under sized: Takes longer to achieve desired room temps , especially after setback…. Boiler may not be able to get the house warm enough on the coldest days…. Might not be enough hot water and/or slower time to heat more water On the moderately/acceptably oversized side, would a boiler that’s bigger than needed use say 10% more oil than one that is properly sized? 5%? 20%? (I typed “moderately/acceptably oversized” because that’s what I’m assuming putting the Buderus G115WS/4 in my house would be). At this point, I’m definitely leaning towards adding the Logamatic, but just the outdoor sensor and not the indoor room sensor. I want to avoid the potential problems that can arise with indoor reset, especially since i don't think my house doesn't have an average temp” room. Sounds like just using the outdoor sensor would make my system a good amount more efficient (even if it’s not the most efficient possible) while also avoiding the potential pitfalls that the indoor sensor can result in. Make sense? I’m also wondering if it would worthwhile wait a year or two before installing the Logamatic and see how the new Buderus does on its own first. That way I could first gauge how much oil I saved by just putting in the new boiler…. And then I could see how much additional oil I saved when adding the outdoor Logamatic sensor. There really is a lot to consider! Many, MANY thanks for helping me think through this important decision. listen to xiphias, he makes great points. If you end up doing the addition, reserve some extra $$$ fro new windows and insulation upgrade in the old part. This way your properly sized boiler before the addition is now properly sized for the extra load simply because you have reduced you heat loss. There is way more to be gained by simply reducing the load of the building. I'm hoping to talk with the installer that I'd like to hire later this week and plan to tell him that I want to go with the smaller 3-section boiler and also the Logamatic w/ outdoor sensor. Thank you all for steering me in the right direction!!! I think I've read this thread at least 10 times to make sure I've absorbed all the information that's been shared. Another question: One installer recommended adding an outside air kit for fresh air from the outside wall directly to the burner for proper combustion in a confined space. Well, my current boiler has been running in the same space for the last 45 years w/o an outside air kit. The room is L-shaped and measures approx 10ft x 6ft in the big part, and approx 3ft x 8ft in the small part where the oil tank lives. The ceiling is approx 7.5 ft tall. The boiler vents to the chimney which is approx 6-7 feet away. Think it's needed? The hole is already in the wall from an old Washer/Dryer the previous owner kept in the same room, so it wouldn't be hard or expensive to install it. Any downside to having them put in the outside air kit? Thanks Xiphias... I thought the Logo used the same 2 wire sensor, I guess I should read the install ? The fresh air intake is a good idea. That combustion air into the unit, and up the chimney has to come from somewhere. When the burner fires, without the air intake, it pulls air from every nook and cranny in the home, burns it and shoots it up the chimney. With the fresh air intake, the pressure in the home remains pretty much 'static', there's less cold air infiltration. Thanks NJ Trooper! Oh, and here's the link to the install manual -- LOL! : http://www.buderus.us/files/20100623...on_Service.pdf OK, just got off the phone with my installer. We're going with the G115WS/3 and Logamatic. I'm getting the updated proposal tmrw. About how much less money should a WS/3 cost versus a WS/4? I just want to reality check the updated estimate and make sure the WS/3 is priced appropriately compared to the bigger WS/4 that was in my original proposal. Great decision. A good install will really make this system sing. Brush up on the install manual and piping options. Make sure they are followed to the letter. As Trooper is fond of saying, the installation manual is not a kneepad! On price. Not much less. 75-200 perhaps. Originally Posted by FleetwoodH Another question: One installer recommended adding an outside air kit for fresh air from the outside wall directly to the burner for proper combustion in a confined space. I believe that you have a (very) confined space. Let's see if I get this right.... You have a volume of 630 cubic feet. The boiler input is around 96000 BTU/hr (I think.) The code says you need 50 cubic feet per 1000 BTU/hr of input. So 50 * 96 = 4802 cubic feet required for unconfined space. If that's correct, you're a bit short on combustion air..... Go with the intake kit. Upsides: 1) you are no longer sucking air in through all the cracks in the building, which increases heat loss, drafts and everything else, 2) the boiler gets the air it needs for efficient combustion, 3) you are less likely to wake up dead from CO poisoning. Downside: the fan can be a bit noisy. But I think Buderus makes their own kit, which is probably quite good quality. Another alternative is one that TO uses, which involves some large-diameter PVC piping from the outside, and a cold air trap. I'll let him explain further. Hmmm, I'd say the upsides outweighs the downsides! Definitely having the air intake kit installed now. Kinda funny that my house has been running fine on an oversized boiler that's not getting enough combustion air for literally decades. And I had no idea! Actually, i thought we were doing pretty good only burning 800 or so gallons of oil a year. Guess my existing heating system is unfortunately a common example of a good install versus a thoughtless one.... Glad to be correcting that! Just got a message from my installer.... He originally recommended using a Riello burner, but he wants to switch to the Carlin EZ-1 instead. Reasoning: Whenever we direct vent or use outside air, the Carlin works better..... The reason is the cold air coming from the outside, it affects the Riello in a negative way, but the Carlin handles it fine. The Carlin has an oil line heater that keeps the oil warm for the start up..... It lights easily with no problems, burners with no oil line heater, prior to start-up the outside air cools the oil, therefore when the unit starts, you tend to have combustion problems. Make sense? The Buderus will vent through the chimney just like my current system.... But we're adding the fresh air kit. Sounds like that's the reason for the switch to Carlin. All things being equal, I'd like to go with my installers recommendation. Just want to make sure nobody sees a problem with it.... Thank you!
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