I'm having a hard time finding much information or opinions about WaterBoss water softeners. Their website has quite a bit of info about the system and how it works. I like the fact that it's smaller, uses a different valve/system than GE/Kenmore/Whirlpool/etc., and is supposedly programmed to use less salt, regenerate on demand, use less water, and cycle in much less time. However, I don't really know anything about its reliability and reputation. My friendly neighborhood Home Depot is now selling these at close to the same prices as the GEs. My current GE has been giving me headaches for a long time, and I'm trying to decide whether to repair it or replace it.
Any opinions on the WaterBoss systems would be greatly appreciated.
WaterBoss softeners are nice and compact, and the computer control is decent, but the construction and materials used in the valve and tank are shoddy. I bought one back in '98, and a year later resin beads started to appear in my water system. As the tank has a 5 or 10 year warranty they graciously offered me a new unit, which I picked up at the late great local HomeBase.
I installed the new unit, and barely 2 days later the brine tank began to overflow. It turned out that the seal for the bottom of the tank had been improperly placed and water was leaking out. I had to go through the trouble of emptying all the salt and brine and taking the thing out and reseating the seal, just because a worker installed it wrong and quality control failed to notice it.
Then... Almost precisely 3 years later, just after the warranty on the valve expired... the brine tank started overflowing again. This time, something was wrong with the venturi system, and it was forcing water into the tank rather than drawing a vacuum dirung the brining cycle. I called WB and they walked me through a rather elaborate procedure to measure the water output during certain parts of the cycle. Based on that they said the end-cap or piston was damaged. I disassembled the valve and found neither to show any sign of damage. But that was all the company would offer, and they said since it was out of warranty I would have to fork over over $40 just to see. At that point I decided I had had enough and unloaded the lemon, never to purchase a WaterBoss again! I went without soft water for a while till this week when I picked up a used Rainsoft system for a decent price.
If I was going the new route, I would spend a little extra and buy a system online that uses a Fleck computerized demand control valve. I have not had experience with these personally but have heard nothing but good things about Fleck. In general, the softeners at the Big Box outlets are of lower quality construction and will develop problems sooner. That's what I've heard (and experienced...)
I installed a Waterboss 700 three years ago and it has been operating trouble free ever since. Installation and configuration was easy, and I really like the small footprint compared to the separate resin tank / salt storage tank it replaced.
I've also had under sink Waterboss inline filtration system installed for 3 years. They no longer sell the undersink system, but I contact their customer service periodically for replacement filters. Filters are expensive, but customer service is great.
I am a relatively happy Water Boss owner. It is my first softner so I can't judge it in comparison to any others. Only problem was an intermitant home finding problem. Basically, after regeneration it could not find its home setting. I called them and they sent a new magnet wheel. After the problem got progressively worse I installed the new wheel and all is well with my water boss. No leaks or any other problems. Only 3 of us in the house so water useage I would call as low. Continue to be a happy owner.
I have two neighbors who bought Waterboss 900s and another who bought a Watts Premier Soft-Tek (same design - maybe same thing). They made their choice based on the smaller size of those softeners (sort of a snub-nose design). They just didn't have room for a conventional size softener and they liked buying locally. They all realized that the Big Box Store would be of little use as far as service after the sale and believed the idea that a large corporation with adequate staff and an inventory of parts was as good or better than buying mail order on the net from a seller who stocks no parts. Another reason they relayed to me was that at least they could inspect the softener before taking it home rather than waiting to see if UPS crunched one if they bought mail order.
The two Waterbosses are 3 years old and the Watts is 2 years old. All three have been working properly and been pretty frugal with salt. All are using KCl instead of NaCl. We are all on the same 25g hardness water with no iron.
One Waterboss owner had a minor problem and called the toll-free number. He spoke to a tech (in English) who identified the problem and FedExed him the part. It was in his hand at 10 AM the next morning and 10 minutes later the problem was resolved.
When shopping for my softener I wasn't interested in any of the pre-packed proprietary softeners like the Waterboss or even a Sears. I have to admit that their softeners work exactly like mine on the same water. All our softeners make the same water soft and seem to work without much attention other than adding KCl.
Seems like a lot of these pre-packed softeners are sold and you don't see much bad press or class action lawsuits.
I have owned a Waterboss 950, which is for city water, for about two years. It does a fantastic job of taking all of the hardness out of the water. It also does a fantastic job of removing chlorine. Actually I bought it as much for the chlorine removal as for the soft water. In case you are not aware of it you actually absorb more chlorine in your system through your skin by taking a shower than you do in drinking city water.
The Waterboss is so much more efficient than any other water treatment system out there. For my wife and I a 40 pound bag of salt lasts about 10 months. I can hardly blieve how efficiently it uses salt.
One of the nicest things about having it is when I wash my car there are absolutely no water spots on it. Other tremendous advantages are that I only need to use about one fifth the amount of detergent in the clothes washer and the dish washer.
Also, I do not have itchy skin in the winter time like I used to. I live in Montana where the winter air gets pretty dry. My wife also loves the way it leaves her skin feeling (I love the way it leaves her skin feeling too). The savings on soap and shampoo in the shower are the same as the savings in the clothes and dish washers.
I couldn't be happier with the Waterboss. Also, with the directional flow screens that it uses there is no seepage of unsoftened water like the age old design that Culigan or all of the other manufacturers use. In the regeneration mode it actually uses conditioned water to regenerate with. This makes sure that the media is totally regenerated.
I hope this helps. I probably sound like a salesman for Waterboss. I am not. I just really like what it does for us.
Sincerely,
Steve G
Steve,
Great that things are working out for you with your WaterBoss. One of my customers has three in his basement and couldn't bare to buy the fourth, and that was only in 9 years.
It sounds like you are on city water so it is understandable how you could use such little salt. The resin bed is packed so it will be more efficient on light hardness with little or no iron. I never recommend these with 1 ppm iron or more. He had 26 grains hardness and 3 ppm iron.
How does it remove the chlorine? Does the tank contain carbon?
My question is, how, with only one tank, can it regenerate with softened water. It may fill the brine drum with softened water but I cannot see how it can regenerate with water that is not available at that time. Just curious on how it can do that.
Andy Christensen, CWS-II
Originally Posted by justalurker
The two Waterbosses are 3 years old and the Watts is 2 years old. All three have been working properly and been pretty frugal with salt.
An addendum... the two Waterboss softeners have died after repeated and annoying problems with no easy resolution. The Watts softener is still operating but very tired and showing it's age.
IMO these snub nose softeners are better suited to slightly hard water than hardness above 5gpg.
In all three instances I believe industry standard softeners with Fleck control valves would be barely broken in after a few years of softening 25gpg hard water.
All three people have replaced their softeners with Fleck based industry standard units and are enjoying soft water again.
From: J Pease 2008
I had used the WaterBoss system on our Well Water for about 11 years. My well had 8 ppm clear water Iron with a hardness of 18 grains per gallon. Before buying a WaterBoss, I had a Sears Iron Filter along with a Sears Water Softener System. Luckily, I had both under a service contract as they broke just about every month causing rust in our water system. After a year of fighting this problem, I replaced both units with a model 700 WaterBoss. To my amase, all my problems were solved. The system worked wonderful and I was able to get rid of the Iron Filter because the WaterBoss handled that issue. I sold our home in 2002 and as far as I know it is still doing its job.
We bought an Avion 5th Wheel Travel Trailer to travel during retirement. We lived in it full time for almost 4 years. Traveling, we experienced water problems at different campgrounds. I installed a Waterboss 700 in our 37 ft. Avion 5th Wheel. It worked great and eliminated the water quality issue. We sold the Travel Trailer and have since bought a home in a mobile home condo community that has a central well system with treatment for bacteria using chlorine. They supply water to all the Homeowners. It is hard water 14 grains per gallon and also contains a chlorine from the treatment. I install a model 950 WaterBoss on my system it works great. I no longer have chlorine tasting water. After a long experience with water treatment I would not use anything except a WaterBoss.
J Pease
I posted before i saw this post.
I would also like to know if you can water plants with soft water or if the system has to designed to switch away from it. How many people that have water softeners buy drinking water? or do you have to buy drinking water. I for one do not like culligans drinking water. is the 900 or 950 the way to go for city water for a family of 5?
anyone know of a better system than water boss? ive heard some good reports about them so far,compared to most others.
Originally Posted by eljoya
I'm having a hard time finding much information or opinions about WaterBoss water softeners. Their website has quite a bit of info about the system and how it works. I like the fact that it's smaller, uses a different valve/system than GE/Kenmore/Whirlpool/etc., and is supposedly programmed to use less salt, regenerate on demand, use less water, and cycle in much less time. However, I don't really know anything about its reliability and reputation. My friendly neighborhood Home Depot is now selling these at close to the same prices as the GEs. My current GE has been giving me headaches for a long time, and I'm trying to decide whether to repair it or replace it.
Any opinions on the WaterBoss systems would be greatly appreciated.
I owned a waterboss 900 for a few years BUT when I had a problem the company sold me a brine value which do not fix my problem, a motor which did not fix the problem a $200.00 control board which did not fix the problem and then they told me to send in the entire unit at a cost of over 100 dollars shipping and then IF the tank was bad they would fix it and send it back. Buy a Pelican which is a lot more but you don't had salt so it is healthy and won't hurt plants.
Bob
Hi. Newbie here (to this group). Thank god for the internet. I need info about my waterboss softener, and here it is.
I've owned my 900 for 6 years. No problems until a piece of crud jammed the turbine and stopped the unit cold. Called support and disassembled the top end and fixed the turbine. Went to plug the control unit in and no power. Turns out there is a fragile little metal clip inside next to the male prong which had broken off during disassembly and was lost. I fiddled with it and the control unit (CU) works fine if contact is made, but WB's only solution was to sell me a new board: $200 bucks. I operated on the board and fashioned a new metal clip which makes the contact, but it is rather funky chicken. Anyone out there who has a board for the 900, please contact me- I'd be interested in having a spare.
Nick 847-691-8120
BTW, the supervisor I got was a REAL JERK.
we also have a waterboss 900. its worked fine but recently it gets stuck in the E1 code, constantly beeps, and the motor unit makes a loud click sound.
does anyone know what could be causing this and how we could fix it?
thanks in advance.
Whatever is causing the click is causing the error code because the control can't move freely to wherever it needs to go. What causes that I don't know.
If you can't get service or don't want to, replace the thing with a correctly sized real softener using a Clack WS-1 control valve.
Correctly sized means that the constant SFR gpm of the softener is greater than the max peak demand gpm of the family size, number of bathrooms and type of fixtures in them.
The constant SFR is a function of the volume of resin in the softener. It is lower than the one that most sellers use like xx gpm @ 15 psi; for either their softener or the control valve on it. I. E. the Clack WS-1 has a 27 gpm SFR BUT, that is used to tell the dealer what size tank the control can be used on for either a filter or softener. When applied to the softener, that xx @ 15 psi is the max flow rate and the 15 psi means a pressure loss of 15 psi. But it has little to do with the softener being able to remove all the hardness in the water regardless of how much water you use at one time (the peak demand gpm at that time).
Originally Posted by davisa
we also have a waterboss 900. its worked fine but recently it gets stuck in the E1 code, constantly beeps, and the motor unit makes a loud click sound.
does anyone know what could be causing this and how we could fix it?
thanks in advance.
The problem you are experiencing is the exact same thing that is happening to mine. The piston on the brine valve has gotton stuck, and has now worn the drive gear. You will have to clean/replace the piston for the brine valve, and replace the drive gear. if you look at the right side back where the timer motor is, you will see the black plastic drive gear. I have to call them tomorrow to get replacement parts, since I can't seem to find parts online.
I have been looking at my Water Boss 900 and have the E1 code showing. E1 Home Magnet not found. I found this on page 16 of the owners manual Version 6. It states Cycle Power by unplugging the transformer and plugging it back in and it will look for Home again. If this does not fix it go to page 21 of the owners manual item 13 this is the Magnet Disk Assembly. If you look at it closely it is a cam that pushes on a rounded button sticking out of the Brine Valve Assembly whick is item 11. Look at the Magnet Disk Assembley cams, you might find the plastic cams have been destroyed and damaged because the Brine Valve Assemble plunger is jamed.
Take a screwdriver and push in on the plunger and make sure it is free. If it is jamed it trashed the cam on the Magnet Disk Assembley. Unplug the Power to the unit, unplug the motor from the electronic unit, remove the two screws that hold the motor and set it aside. take your fingers and manually turn the Magnet disk assembly counterclockwise and the Water Boss will manually go through its cycles. This is fresh in my mind because I just did it to mine. I am calling Water Boss tomorrow at 1-88-437-8993 to order parts and hopefully they will be free because it is less than 3 years old and should be covered by waranty. I wish you luck. If you have your manual or download the one from the Water Boss website and follow what I wrote I'm sure you will be able to follow this!!
This is my first repair, I can't find a local source for parts, Ace Hardware sells them acording to their website and they don't seem to share parts with other softners. The GE, Miracle, Morton, Sears etc. are all the same on the inside and I won't buy another one of them. So far the parts I will order tomorrow and every screw and the motor housing are badly rusted on the Water Boss, what a mistake not to use Stainless Steel screws and parts in a salt enviroment. It really cheapens their product.
Later,
Padroo
Padroo, Thank you for your excellent, detailed post. I am also having what seems to be the exact same problem. Can you give us an update? Did Waterboss stand behind their product and give you the parts you need? Did it fix the problem?
Installation was easy-I replaced an older water softener. Controller was a breeze and the quality of the water is amazing. I researched softeners before buying and am glad I went this model 900. Can't say enough good about it.
I installed a Waterboss 900 about 18 months ago and am very satisfied with it.
Positives: installation is well documented and simple, very efficient salt usage, regeneration cycles are amazingly quick, customer support is very knowledgeable, has been issue free since installation.
Negatives: regeneration is quick but loud (not really an issue if it is located in a garage or basement).
After hauling many, many, many bags of salt for previous timed and on-demand water softeners, I am very happy with the performance/efficiency of this product and highly recommend it.
My wife I are investigating replacing our 5+ year old softener. Even though it is doing a great job of conditioning the water for our household of five, (3 adults, 2 children), like many softeners, it uses a large amount of water in it's regen cycle - about 70-75 gallons every 14-16 days.
Since we recently had a septic drain field failure, we are trying to do everything we can to reduce the volume of water that enters the new drain field. We were in Home Depot last night and noticed that the WB 900 claims to use as little as 14 gal. of water ... to regenerate. I've done some research and haven't been able to ascertain the answers to the following questions: (1) Just how frequently does the WB initiate a regen cycle? and (2) What does the as little as part of the spec really mean? My concern is that this is one of those marketing ploys and that the unit will regen 4-6 times in the same 14-16 day period and end up using just as much (or more) water regenerating as out current unit.
So, WB users, what's the answer that WB won't tell me...?
The little as 14-16 gallons is true, on the shortest time frame of a cleaning cycle, on the simplest of water challenge, ie 2grain hard water...
70-75 gallons per cleaning cycle is not bad, right in line with normal systems on the market.
Are the non adults Teenagers?
Can the well handle the 75 gallon demand in the 1.5 hours that the system would be cleaning?
3gal for 10minutes
.5gal for 50 minutes
3gal for 6 minutes
3gal for 6 minutes
I am trying to understand what the challenge is with the water usage of the system cleaning?
The family of your size is most likely using 350 gallons per day, so an extra 75 every 5 days or so is a problem?
If your existing system is operating correctly and correctly programmed for your water conditions there is no way you will get significantly less water usage for regeneration from the WB or any other system.
You could however change the pattern of usage with a different system--using smaller amounts more frequently.
I'm not up on all the water usage and everything else. I will say that I have my second Waterboss water softener. They both worked well and I was happy with the water. The new one however came with extremely cheap worthless parts. The connections were different and required me to change out the hoses. The new hoses are no longer braided line and have really lousy compression fittings. I followed the instructions on connecting the new lines. One of the connections failed over a year ago and flooded my garage. I reattached it and had no problems for over a year until this weekend. I was out of town and again the compression fitting failed and this time flooded my house. While the water softener produces nice water, the material with the unit is junk and I would never recommend this unit to anyone.
Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
The little as 14-16 gallons is true, on the shortest time frame of a cleaning cycle, on the simplest of water challenge, ie 2grain hard water...
So, as with gasoline engine MPG ratings, your usage may vary , would be an accurate statement, eh?
Our water is fairly hard (around 300ppm Calcium Hardness), so that certainly isn't a simple water challenge.
Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
70-75 gallons per cleaning cycle is not bad, right in line with normal systems on the market.
That's what I thought, too. We're not 100% sure, but I have a pretty good estimate based upon some creative calculations: The softener is in a below-grade basement which uses an effluent pump to get waste water out to the septic system. Knowing how much water the effluent basin holds, and how many times the pump cycles during the overall regen cycle, gave me the number I quoted. Sometimes it's a little higher - as much 80-85 gallons - but never less than 70. I've been told that some systems can use as much as 100 gallons or more per regen cycle, but we don't.
Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
Are the non adults Teenagers?
No - both girls, 7 and 9.
Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
Can the well handle the 75 gallon demand in the 1.5 hours that the system would be cleaning?
I don't think that's a problem - at least it hasn't been in the almost 6 years we're living here. We've even run out a considerable amount of non-conditioned water to deal with three separate rounds of major grass (re)seeding over the past 5+ years. I hate to say this, but the well, the pump and the diaphragm tank are all working like champs.. so far, anyway. {Sound of knuckles knocking on wood...}
Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
I am trying to understand what the challenge is with the water usage of the system cleaning?
The challenge is not so much the actual usage, but what goes down into the septic tank and ultimately into the drain field. My wife is a bit obsessive about this now, since our drain field failure was directly related to too much water and no place for it to go. She has been looking at everything we do with an eye towards reducing the volume of water that goes into the system. We both realize that this past 6-12 months has been sort of the perfect storm for max'ed out failure - too much rain, too much snow, too much water from the household, poor system design, improper and too deep installation. She has always been interested in keeping our water use down, but she's gotten even more interested in anything and everything that will reduce the gallons going down the drain since our drain field failed.
When we saw the WaterBoss at Home Depot, and the associate there talked about how short his regen cycle was, we looked at the literature and well, the as little as 14 gal. of water ... to regenerate caught her eye.
Originally Posted by Akpsdvan
The family of your size is most likely using 350 gallons per day, so an extra 75 every 5 days or so is a problem?
Not if it's really the only affordable and reliable solution to having conditioned water, no. In *my* opinion, that's true even if I've miscalculated and it's closer to 100 extra gallons every 14-16 days. (Note that we're currently regenerating about once every 14-16 days, not every 5.)
Everyone - including the children - have been trained to take so-called 'sailor showers', although their mother (my step-daughter) uses a bit more, since she has longer hair which requires a bit more washing, rinsing and conditioning. I think that our overall water usage is what I would consider slightly below normal. Other than their laundry, that is. Since the drain field failure, my step-daughter has been restricted to no more than one large load per day, which she has kept to. But prior to that, it wouldn't have been uncommon for her to run 4-5 large loads each weekend day, with the 2-3 loads during the week. OTOH, my wife I only run 3-4 loads every 10-12 days.
Originally Posted by Bob999
If your existing system is operating correctly and correctly programmed for your water conditions there is no way you will get significantly less water usage for regeneration from the WB or any other system.
That's actually what I was hoping a current WB owner would tell me.
As I've come to learn over the past few years, there are many factors that go into correctly programming a softener. I think that we've finally got it right here. But, my wife is anxious about just dumping so much waste water down into the septic system, that she believes that (to use her words), there just has to be a better solution. Well, we've investigated quite a few of them and I can tell you that there really isn't. At least not that are reliable and are affordable by the average homeowner, anyway.
The WaterBoss caught her eye with its claim of using significantly less water (and salt) per cycle. The fact that the manufacturer is pretty mum about what the high end usage could be and just how frequently their unit(s) actually run a regen cycle gave me pause. Another yellow flag was that they market a unit with a 160 pound salt tank that only uses 3 pounds of salt per cycle; I did the math... things don't quite add up right.
Anyway, coupled with the massive number of negative comments regarding the quality of manufacture and customer service that are floating around the Internet, I think that we'll be skipping the WaterBoss and staying with our Hydroflo/AutoTrol 255 valve/460i controller.
It can use less salt because of the up flow brine..
But yes there are any number of people that have not been real happy with the water boss or the mini Water Max from Hague.
I am basing my information and statements on what I have seen of the water boss and water max over the last 15 years that they have been in service.
There are some nice points about either of the units, but those points do come at a price that is not often talked about.
Like the cars today getting 35mpg.. is that city or highway? What kind of highway? L.A. or midwest where there are few trafic jams?
If you can put gray water in to what some call a dry pit, that is one way of not putting the softener in with the black water.
Softener is only one thing that may or may not lead to a septic system challenge... washing the food dishes and the pots and pans have a bigger challenge to the system.. bleach and other cleaning items that go down the drain.
What was the age of the septic? was it put in right the first time or did that contractor take some short cuts?
LazerFlash:
One option you might consider, if you have the space available, is a holding tank to store the discharge from the water softener. The tank needs to be at least 10% larger than the maximum discharge for one cycle of the softener, 2x is even better. The tank is emptied by means of a slow, controlled flow (trickle) over a period of 3 or 4 days, allowing the drain field to accept the large load over a long period of time, rather than the full discharge in a 1.5 hour period. I have used this type of system before for a customer whose sewer could not handle the sudden influx of water from a water softener. Although it will not reduce the total load on the septic system, it will spread that load over a much longer time frame.
Tags: opinions, waterboss, water, softeners, Originally Posted, have been, drain field, with water, Originally Posted Akpsdvan, Posted Akpsdvan, regen cycle
